DramaWiki talk

Chinese TV Show Article Formatting

From DramaWiki

Combining multiple seasons

Is is possible for you Chinese editors to combine multiple seasons into a single article? Rather than having one article for each season? If a show were to air for, let's say 18 seasons, I don't want to see 18 different articles. It would make more logical sense to keep all the seasons together in one article. We do this for the Japanese articles. Thanks! Groink 19:10, 19 Aug 2007 (CDT)

How should I start? Where to I send the old (season 2) articles once I combine it to the original (season 1) article? --WaterOB 09:08, 20 Aug 2007 (CDT)
In the Japanese articles, we section the article as "Season 1", "Season 2", etc. Then in the wikilink within the artist's article, we place [[Drama Name#Season 2|Drama Name 2]] for seasons 2 and up. Groink 11:49, 20 Aug 2007 (CDT)
Since the combination needs to be done manually (cannot be moved or redirected), what would happened to the old articles (eg: season 2, 3, 4, etc) after the combination? Do we just leave it blank or tag them with request for deletion? --uladelz 15:07, 20 Aug 2007 (CDT)
I added {{deletebecause|Article has been combined under [[Drama Name]]: Season 2, 3, 4, etc}} to the old articles.--WaterOB 16:04, 20 Aug 2007 (CDT)
Add #REDIRECT [[Drama Name#Season 2]] to the old articles, so that we don't need to tag them with request for deletion. --uladelz 13:27, 21 Aug 2007 (CDT)

What should we do about unconfirmed season 2 articles, such as Corner with Love 2? --WaterOB 14:51, 20 Aug 2007 (CDT)

Actually, if the show hasn't been confirmed, there shouldn't even be an article created for it. The {{unconfirmed}} was created as a way to handle incorrectly created articles for shows like Goong 2 and such, seeing no one can delete articles. But in the case of unconfirmed drama articles that already exists, I would just leave it as-is. But make sure that:
  1. The article contains the {{unconfirmed}} tag.
  2. NO ARTIST should be linking to the unconfirmed drama article.

Groink 17:57, 20 Aug 2007 (CDT)

What about situations like Liao Zhai 2 and Liao Zhai Qi Nu Zi when the original production company for Liao Zhai split into two and went their separate ways? --WaterOB 08:29, 21 Aug 2007 (CDT)

I suggest we don't have to combine them and just leave it as what they are now since they went to two different separate ways. Well, not all Japanese articles with different seasons have been combined into one article, so there must be a few exceptions in Chinese section too. --uladelz 09:29, 21 Aug 2007 (CDT)

I find combining different seasons into one article a very sufficient idea. I have noticed it in the Japanese articles. It helps the people who visit DramaWiki save a lot of time in looking up articles. Yamayo69 14:07, 21 Aug 2007

Unnecessary Hanzi?

The hanzi for the roles are a bit unnecessary as it leads nowhere in the case of trying to provide for English readers. Now, I understand why it would be essential for the artist as I do know many English readers would search for an artist through their hanzi. But for a role, I think not. And moreover, if following closely with the guidelines, there is no (<hanzi>) at the end of <character name> on cast. --Vivi.g 19:37, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)

If no further complaint, I will proceed removing the hanzi again. --Vivi.g 19:48, 14 Au 2009 (PST)
this drama is not the only one you know
Yes, this isn't the only page with this "error". But as they say, if you don't start somewhere, you won't achieve anywhere. --Vivi.g 20:00, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)
From what start?
It's a figure of speech. --Vivi.g 20:04, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)
As for me, I don't get it
Marc8, do you have anything else that goes against my "theory"? If not, I will revert the page back to the other format.--Vivi.g 20:08, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)
The reason why I want hanzi on characters because I' ll know the exact names on characters.
I believe that that's what the pinyin is for. And keep in mind this is the DramaWiki guideline I'm following, not what I wanted. --Vivi.g 20:14, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)
This is no pinyin, it is romanization of Chinese language. For example, Ai, obviously means love. However, Ai can be means cloudy sky, to hide, narrow, etc. If you follow the DramaWiki guideline precisely, then there is a loophole in this guideline.
What you are pointing out is English translation. Which, yes, there are multiple meaning for almost every characters. But that, what you are exemplifying, has nothing to do with the way hanzi and pinyin are dealed here. This is not focusing on English translation, but rather converting hanzi into pinyin so they can be easily read by the English readers. Loophole or not, it is the guideline that is set for us to follow in here.--Vivi.g 20:39, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)
What if the creator didn't realize that there is a flaw on character names? Why not ask Groink or Pinkpineapple about this? If they don't agreed about my concerns, then there is no need to debate on this any further. Just let you know, if they really honour your theory, they have a serious clean up to do.

To start off, I know absolutely nothing about Hanzi. From my understanding, Hanzi is not as clear cut as Kanji. When us Japanese editors romanize a given Kanji name, it is virtually indisputable because our Japanese romanization system is very specific. Given that, whenever an editor romanize Hanzi, we must trust the editor. We do at times have mis-transcriptions of the romanization, and we do correct it. Corrections are not a problem. As long as the person making the correction cites some sort of a reference, for example a trusted web site, the drama's official web site, Wikipedia (Japanese Wikipedia occasionally use spaced hiragana to aid in romanization), etc. we'll accept the correction. So in short, I don't think it is necessary to keep the Hanzi for character names for the reason of verification later on. I think a person who's very familiar with the drama is more than qualified to pick out incorrect romanization of character names without the Hanzi. I also encourage the fansubber of the drama to come to DramaWiki and make the corrections.

In short, the ONLY time Hanzi is left in an article is when the article (artist or drama title) hasn't yet been created. We leave the Hanzi in an article to help other editors search for articles referencing the Hanzi. Once the article is created, the editor will then hunt down all the articles containing the Hanzi, and then remove the Hanzi.

Again, I'm not an expert in Hanzi. But I do believe that Hanzi and Kanji have identical roles on DramaWiki. Groink 05:48, 15 Aug 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing up the disagreement. I do agree with you on the only time hanzi should be placed. I will revert the page now.--Vivi.g 21:28, 14 Aug 2009 (PST)
Further discussion...

I've copied comments from Chillyperson to Vivi.g from Vivi.g's talk page, seeing it is relevant to this discussion. I want all the discussion to stay on this page, rather than scatter it all over place. Groink 11:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Please don't delete the hanzi from the Taiwanese dramas because it is a necessary component in the cast section. From the fact that one hanyu pinyin can represent a lot of Chinese characters they can help others to avoid misunderstandings. This situation also applies to the romanization of Chinese in Taiwanese drama titles and actor/actress names. Please don't delete them because most Taiwanese actors/actresses use it in their pages and DramaWiki editing standards did not restrict this. Chillyperson 01:47, 20 August 2009 (PST)

Earlier, I made the suggestion that the hanzi really should not be needed, once the character's name has been romanized. It isn't needed in the Japanese dramas articles. I don't understand why Taiwanese drama articles requires it. For one thing, you mention that there can be a variety of romanization transcriptions for a given name. I don't understand this because, if you watch the drama, you should be able to hear the character name audibly, and that in turn should secure the correct romanization. That's how we do it on the Japanese drama side. Couldn't you apply the same practice to Taiwanese dramas? Groink 11:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Vivi.g and Groink made a good point. Dramawiki is for English speakers. But, it rubs me the wrong way when I see a Taiwanese drama page without hanzi character name. Maybe it's a Taiwanese thing, I love to do search under drama + character names. The web gives me whole lot of pictures, fan made videos, music videos just on my favorite character. (I could careless about most Taiwanese actors/actresses.) So my position is with Chillyperson. Please don't delete character hanzi from Taiwanese section. --WaterOB 15:56, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Right now, I don't think any clear decision is going to be made anytime soon. So we'll just have to stick with what is currently written in the guidelines. In the guidelines, "Hanzi are placed in parenthesis ONLY if the artist page does not currently exist. Once the artist page is created, remove the (<hanzi>) from the article." Although this guideline is specific to artist hanzi, I think the spirit of this guidelines pertains also to character names once they're romanized. Again, I'm not a Chinese drama fan. My only concern is DramaWiki as a whole, and I would like to see a level of consistency across all the Asian articles - including the Japanese and Korean articles. I'm not saying "yes" or "no" on the matter. I'd like to leave that up to the major Chinese contributors like WaterOB, Chillyperson, vivi.g, VT and Marc8, among others I might have missed. If all of you vote on it, and leaving the hanzi is the majority, then I'd be fine with it. At this point, I would recommend one of you take a lead on this. Write a request for vote on this talk page. Write a statement, stating the issue at-hand. Write to each of these contributors' talk page to draw attention to the vote, and have them vote on it. Groink 06:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

You say "misunderstandings", you were directing this toward the editors, correct? If that's the case, the editor should have done his/her research from a reliable source before changing the edits. I still don't see how removing the hanzi could cause any confusions. Most of the readers, again aiming toward the English reading audience, would usually read the pinyins as opposed to the hanzi. And no matter how you read it, both pronunciations will still be the same. Furthermore if the readers really want the hanzi, which I find it to be a more personal appeal, the External Links section should provide a link to the names in hanzi (e.g. the official site). --Vivi.g 22:10, 20 Aug 2009 (PST)

If voting is the only way to settle this then I guess it must do. Since this was mainly involving the Taiwanese section, will this affect only the Taiwanese articles or the Chinese articles as well?--Vivi.g 22:18, 20 Aug 2009 (PST)
This is why I'm against leaving the hanzi. Either way, the rule would apply to all Chinese articles. Groink 07:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Let me add something before we start bothering editors to do the voting. I don't have a perfect knowledge on Chinese characters. I actually learned a few new words after I started editing here. It's because an editor before me coded the hanzi for a character name that a light bulb came up, "Oh that is how the word is read! No wonder I can't find it in my pinyin search." And that is also the reason that I coded hanzi next to my character names so the next editor may learn a new word, too. --WaterOB 15:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)