User talk:Groink

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Minor changes to KDrama formatting guides

I did some minor changes to the KDrama formatting guides which basically reflect the currently used formatting. Please have a look. Perhaps some of the general things can also be applied to the JDrama guides.

• General / Dateformat. Using consistent YYYY-MMM-DD format
• Artist / TV Show listing. Removed the listing of the actor's character/role because it is redundant and was rarely added. Although someone, who must have read the guide, started to this info recently. Maybe this should be made optional.
• Artist / Recognitions section. Got heavily changed because on the web you find only information about won awards. Appearances or nominations don't seem to be noteworthy enough for Koreans.
• KDrama / Air time format. Commented out the paragraph about the 24h-format, because 8:00 for korean morning dramas without AM could be confusing for readers who don't know about the time format. Also it seems that the AM/PM format is more common in Korea... well at least on the official drama websites. Happy Wiki'ing! --MoerkJ ^talk 12:21, 14 Aug 2008 (CEST)

That's great! Thanks for the update. FYI, I only wrote the Japanese version. The editors who work on the Korean articles copied the Japanese version, and then made changes pertaining to Korean. Groink 21:57, 14 Aug 2008 (CEST)

Birthday

Please do not use the existing articles as examples when developing your template. You had in your template "Birthday:" and that is totally incorrect. The official profile format is covered in this article: DramaWiki:Korean_Artist_Article_Formatting

My mistake... I did update my template to reflect the new formatting and accidently deleted the "Birthdate:" line and then retyped it incorrectly. Anyhow... thanks for the updated date format... Now I can remove June and ???? from my memory.

Artist / TV Show listing. Removed the listing of the actor's character/role because it is redundant and was rarely added. Although someone, who must have read the guide, started to this info recently. Maybe this should be made optional.

Guilty ... I will remove these actors' character/role as I edit pages.

Hello! We use "Birthdate" instead of "Date of Birth." How about death details? I see articles using either "Date of Death" or simply "Death." Which one would we retain? Or is there any other term we should use? I would just like to clarify before I continue editing. Thanks! --MochaValencia 16:12, 30 Aug 2008 (CEST)

I've been using "Death:" Groink 22:46, 30 Aug 2008 (CEST)

Got it. Thanks! --MochaValencia 18:02, 31 Aug 2008 (CEST)

Profile format

Is there a perferred way to name - Empas Profile / EMPAS Profile / Profile (empas)? Thanks Imian 17:51, 31 Aug 2008 (CEST)

Probably the last one is the best - Profile (empas) Groink 22:35, 31 Aug 2008 (CEST)

HK Dramas' Air Dates

I have a small concern about HK dramas (specifically TVB series). For example, Greed Mask's production year is 2003, the overseas launch was also 2003, but I believe the date aired in HK was years later in 2006. So would we use the 2006 date in the details section? I was also wondering if there can be a new option for HK dramas to add "Production period" or the like in the details section as well? Because with TVB series, some dramas may be warehoused and aired a few years after the production date. Or would you rather we just stick to putting the production period in the Notes/Trivia section on the respective drama's page? Also, I was wondering if we should change the overseas dates to the HK dates or keep it like that (The Slicing of the Demon)? Sorry for the bother & thank you~ --Ladys07 12:37, 14 Nov 2008 (EST)

I would use the air date as 2006, and in the trivia section write a note that the show was produced in 2003. Groink 07:37, 14 Nov 2008 (CET)

TV Movies

Why are theatrical movies okay to list on DramaWiki, but not TV ones? That doesn't make much sense to me. --Lady Zhuge 15:16, 21 Dec 2008 (CET)

If they were TV movies, they should've been listed under TV shows. A TV movie is basically a one-shot TV drama, much like what us Japanese fans call a "tanpatsu." I'm not a Chinese/Hong Kong fan by any means, so categorization is even more vital here. Groink 23:14, 21 Dec 2008 (CET)

If that's the case, then why did you remove them altogether from Zoe Tay's article instead of just moving them to the TV section? In China and I believe Singapore as well, a TV movie is not the same as a TV drama or series and thus there is differentiation. Even the terminology is different (电视剧 [TV drama] or 电视连续剧 [TV series] vs. 电视电影 [TV movie]). Therefore, I've been listing all TV movies under "Movies." Until there's an official okay in the guidelines to make 电视电影 articles, that's what I'll continue to do. --Lady Zhuge 01:36, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)

Because, I repeat, I am not familiar with Chinese or Hong Kong dramas. As an outsider, I go by the categories with western thinking in mind. As for DramaWiki's definition of a TV movie, keep in mind that the definition fits the westerners and other native English speakers - as ALL aspects of DramaWiki is for that demographic. Even though the country of origin considers a "TV movie" and a "motion picture in a movie theater" the same thing, to us westerners and English speakers they are NOT one in the same. That's something you editors must consider when deciding how others interpret what you put up here. If, for example, someone on D-Addicts uploads a Chinese TV movie, a moderator is going to delete that movie because, as you've said you've been doing, it is listed as a "movie" on DramaWiki. Movies are not allowed on D-Addicts, but we don't go as far as taking each country of origin's definition of what a movie is. See where I'm getting at here? Groink 02:25, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)

Then perhaps you shouldn't have just taken it upon yourself to remove them without discussion first. I did not say that a "TV movie" and a "motion picture in a movie theater" are the same thing by anyone's definition. If by chance you've happened upon some of the China articles, the TV movies that are listed under "Movies" are differentiated with a "TV movie" notation in parentheses. They were also differentiated from theatrical films in the Zoe Tay article by a separate sub-section (Telemovies). --Lady Zhuge 02:40, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)

It isn't my fault that you Chinese editors deviated from DramaWiki's and D-Addicts' guidelines. My edits follow the guidelines of these two bodies. Where in the Chinese artist article guidelines (BTW, it is virtually a copy of the Japanese artist guidelines, which I personally wrote in 2006) does it say you can create a "telemovie" sub-section? Where in the the guidelines does it say that TV movies are placed in the movies section? Groink 02:49, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)

Maybe people who don't have any clue about Chinese dramas shouldn't be writing and editing the guidelines on Chinese articles in the first place. TV movies are still movies. Nowhere does it say that the "Movies" section is restricted to films in a movie theater. --Lady Zhuge 03:10, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)

That's where you're wrong. D-Addicts define movies as movie theater shows, and TV movies as TV shows. DramaWiki is spawned from D-Addicts. Again, I did not write the Chinese guidelines; someone just copied my Japanese guidelines and use it for the Chinese articles, which basically it is acceptable because, once again, westerners believe that movies are found in a movie theater. I repeat, DramaWiki is for westerners and native English speakers! Your definitions are Eastern Asian, and do not apply here. Groink 03:20, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)

Reading through your talk page, I think I know where the confusion is. In one of the topics of your talk page, it was brought up that the Koreans see a "TV show" and "TV series" differently. In short, the reason why DramaWiki stuck with the "TV show" nomenclature as the section name of choice is that it doesn't force the editor to think about whether the show is only one episode or multiple episodes. One of your comments was that if ALL the TV shows have multiple episodes, then the section name should be "TV series". To me, that is totally ridiculous because it further complicates the whole process of the section. Among the Japanese editors, we treat ALL TV shows as TV shows, and we could care less if it only one episode or multiple episodes. This simplifies the process.

The reason I bring this up is because I think you're thinking way too much about a given TV show. The best thing do is just to simplify the process! Simply put, ANYTHING that appears originally on broadcast TV - it is a TV show. Anything that appears on the big screen in a movie theater - it is a movie. Simple! Trying to force us editors to think about 1) did it air on TV? 2) did it have multiple episodes? 3)xxxxxxxx - it is asking for too much! The guidelines I wrote two years ago is simple! As we move forward here, I will continue to change "TV series" to "TV shows" in the Korean articles, and I will continue to enforce the concept that a "telemovie" is just simply a one-episode TV show.

If after all of this you still disagree, you should put this issue up for discussion in the Chinese Artist Article Guideline talk page. Groink 03:20, 22 Dec 2008 (CET)